Comments on: Make Your Content Smarter With jQuery http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/ Doing That Web Standards Thing Sun, 14 Mar 2010 01:57:03 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Craig http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1662 Craig Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:09:18 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1662 If you hide the link by default using jQuery .css method, then users with no JavaScript will see the link always. This is probably the best compromise. If you hide the link by default using jQuery .css method, then users with no JavaScript will see the link always. This is probably the best compromise.

]]> By: Lauren http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1651 Lauren Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:54:38 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1651 Yea, it's pretty trippy. We deal with a lot of historians and govt officials, but even then one would think they have assistants that can deal with that kind of stuff. Yea, it’s pretty trippy. We deal with a lot of historians and govt officials, but even then one would think they have assistants that can deal with that kind of stuff.

]]> By: Trevor http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1650 Trevor Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:50:53 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1650 @Lauren- Wow, that is amazing to me. How can people not know what a PDF is? I agree, it is definitely all about the audience. @Lauren-
Wow, that is amazing to me. How can people not know what a PDF is?

I agree, it is definitely all about the audience.

]]> By: Lauren http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1649 Lauren Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:43:01 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1649 I get upwards of 10 support requests a month from users who have no idea what a PDF is and want to know why they can't view the information from sites on our network that were created before we started our policy of adding Acrobat links to our pages, and substantially fewer from those sites created after we started this policy. If your audience is such that you feel comfortable overlooking it I think that's a judgment call, but I personally have found that making those kind of assumptions is not always the best thing. I get upwards of 10 support requests a month from users who have no idea what a PDF is and want to know why they can’t view the information from sites on our network that were created before we started our policy of adding Acrobat links to our pages, and substantially fewer from those sites created after we started this policy.

If your audience is such that you feel comfortable overlooking it I think that’s a judgment call, but I personally have found that making those kind of assumptions is not always the best thing.

]]> By: Trevor http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1648 Trevor Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:32:53 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1648 @Lauren- I agree about having things degrade appropriately, as you can tell if you have read some of my previous posts. But in my opinion, adding a link to download Acrobat adds absolutely no value to the page. I mean Acrobat was first released in 1993! If people haven’t heard of Acrobat by now, they probably don’t even know what the internet is. Should we include links to download Microsoft Office too? Also, I agree about Ray’s solution about adding the PDF icon, but that was not the point of the tutorial, which I why I didn’t include it. @Mike- Haha just couldn’t resist could you? jQuery really is amazing. Makes cross browser JavaScript A LOT easier. It’s unfortunate that people are trying to compare JavaScript frameworks to CSS frameworks; I don’t think they will ever be comparable because of the way that the languages work. But, I will say jQuery has made it much easier to account for some of CSS’ problems, and just solve them with JavaScript. @Lauren-
I agree about having things degrade appropriately, as you can tell if you have read some of my previous posts. But in my opinion, adding a link to download Acrobat adds absolutely no value to the page. I mean Acrobat was first released in 1993! If people haven’t heard of Acrobat by now, they probably don’t even know what the internet is. Should we include links to download Microsoft Office too?

Also, I agree about Ray’s solution about adding the PDF icon, but that was not the point of the tutorial, which I why I didn’t include it.

@Mike-
Haha just couldn’t resist could you? jQuery really is amazing. Makes cross browser JavaScript A LOT easier.

It’s unfortunate that people are trying to compare JavaScript frameworks to CSS frameworks; I don’t think they will ever be comparable because of the way that the languages work. But, I will say jQuery has made it much easier to account for some of CSS’ problems, and just solve them with JavaScript.

]]> By: Mike Schinkel http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1646 Mike Schinkel Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:30:49 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1646 jQuery really is a godsend, isn't it? Prior to jQuery, Javascript client-side coding was just too unproductive for me. Now I do lots of it and it is pretty much just easy. That said, too bad their isn't a possibility to create a cQuery; you know a way to encapsulate away all the missing functionality and/or stupid design decisions for that abomination that is CSS. (Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-) jQuery really is a godsend, isn’t it? Prior to jQuery, Javascript client-side coding was just too unproductive for me. Now I do lots of it and it is pretty much just easy.

That said, too bad their isn’t a possibility to create a cQuery; you know a way to encapsulate away all the missing functionality and/or stupid design decisions for that abomination that is CSS. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist. ;-)

]]> By: Lauren http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1645 Lauren Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:09:14 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1645 I've had this similar javascript-disabled user discussion many times with myself over the past years, especially since I moved to DC to take a government job in March. I've since decided that training oneself to anticipate these needs in advance, rather then just treating them as a non-issue from the get-go, doesn't usually require any substantial changes in process or application - it becomes second nature before too long. I do think it's always worth the effort to build in "backups" for any javascript functionality. For this particular application, I would probably use your very nice jQuery script to implement Ray's solution above (aside from looking nice, it's also a usability issue...subtle inline alerts indicating which links point to PDFs are always a good practice) but for javascript-disabled users I do think it's worth the effort of placing links on each page with PDF links (perhaps encased in if you prefer them not to show to most users). If you're concerned about page density and the time commitment, a third less desirable option is just placing the text in your footer include (assuming you use include files for your page components) with tags so it appears on all pages only to javascript-disabled users. I know it doesn't seem like you'd be much better off than leaving it as you wrote it in your post, but training oneself to always at least consider these users is (I think) a worthwhile investment. I’ve had this similar javascript-disabled user discussion many times with myself over the past years, especially since I moved to DC to take a government job in March. I’ve since decided that training oneself to anticipate these needs in advance, rather then just treating them as a non-issue from the get-go, doesn’t usually require any substantial changes in process or application – it becomes second nature before too long. I do think it’s always worth the effort to build in “backups” for any javascript functionality.

For this particular application, I would probably use your very nice jQuery script to implement Ray’s solution above (aside from looking nice, it’s also a usability issue…subtle inline alerts indicating which links point to PDFs are always a good practice) but for javascript-disabled users I do think it’s worth the effort of placing links on each page with PDF links (perhaps encased in if you prefer them not to show to most users). If you’re concerned about page density and the time commitment, a third less desirable option is just placing the text in your footer include (assuming you use include files for your page components) with tags so it appears on all pages only to javascript-disabled users. I know it doesn’t seem like you’d be much better off than leaving it as you wrote it in your post, but training oneself to always at least consider these users is (I think) a worthwhile investment.

]]> By: Links for 2008-09-11 [del.icio.us] | Blog do Camillo - O dia-a-dia de um Desenvolvedor Web http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1639 Links for 2008-09-11 [del.icio.us] | Blog do Camillo - O dia-a-dia de um Desenvolvedor Web Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:02:18 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1639 [...] Jquery Tutorial [...] [...] Jquery Tutorial [...]

]]> By: Ray http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1636 Ray Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:22:42 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1636 I think this is a pretty nice little piece of code, particularly for websites that aren't content-managed and therefore don't have a server-side option. Why not go the next step and have each PDF link display a notation identifying them as a PDF link? It could be the PDF icon, or text: [PDF]. I think this is a pretty nice little piece of code, particularly for websites that aren’t content-managed and therefore don’t have a server-side option. Why not go the next step and have each PDF link display a notation identifying them as a PDF link? It could be the PDF icon, or text: [PDF].

]]> By: Rob Hofker http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1635 Rob Hofker Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:03:48 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1635 Trevor, You maybe right about it not being a big problem, but there are such people out there. But consciuously blocking out users will result in an increasing smaller number of these people coming to your site. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. It's the same as blocking (not supporting) browser X or Y because only 3.5% of your visitors visit your site. You will see the number go down and you can say that you were right because less and less vistors use browser X or Y. Your solution is about improving usability or user experience and you must always be very, very careful with that, because you might just lock out some users and at best not make it worse for them. Trevor,

You maybe right about it not being a big problem, but there are such people out there.

But consciuously blocking out users will result in an increasing smaller number of these people coming to your site. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

It’s the same as blocking (not supporting) browser X or Y because only 3.5% of your visitors visit your site. You will see the number go down and you can say that you were right because less and less vistors use browser X or Y.

Your solution is about improving usability or user experience and you must always be very, very careful with that, because you might just lock out some users and at best not make it worse for them.

]]> By: Trevor http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1634 Trevor Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:44:50 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1634 @Susan- We are using a custom CMS that our company built. Yes, I was considering using JavaScript to write in the link as well, but this makes it easier because it keeps the markup in the template instead of in the JavaScript. @Susan, @Rob, @Gonzalo- I really don’t think it’s a problem to not have it show for people without JavaScript. If you think about it, the number of people who don't have JavaScript enabled and do not have Acrobat is probably a very, very small number too. @Susan-
We are using a custom CMS that our company built. Yes, I was considering using JavaScript to write in the link as well, but this makes it easier because it keeps the markup in the template instead of in the JavaScript.

@Susan, @Rob, @Gonzalo-
I really don’t think it’s a problem to not have it show for people without JavaScript. If you think about it, the number of people who don’t have JavaScript enabled and do not have Acrobat is probably a very, very small number too.

]]> By: Gonzalo Delgado http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1633 Gonzalo Delgado Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:33:28 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1633 This could be easily done server-side also, couldn't it?. This could be easily done server-side also, couldn’t it?.

]]> By: Rob Hofker http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1631 Rob Hofker Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:31:11 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1631 @Susan I think you are right suggesting that it is probably cleaner and better to implement this on the server side. If you do decide to implement it on the client however the described is NOT the proper unobtrosive way to do it. If a user has no JavaScript enabled than the link will not show. I think that there is no unobtrusive way to do this on the client, so I agree with Susan that this should better be implemented on the server. @Susan I think you are right suggesting that it is probably cleaner and better to implement this on the server side.

If you do decide to implement it on the client however the described is NOT the proper unobtrosive way to do it. If a user has no JavaScript enabled than the link will not show.

I think that there is no unobtrusive way to do this on the client, so I agree with Susan that this should better be implemented on the server.

]]> By: Susan Ottwell http://trevordavis.net/blog/tutorial/make-your-content-smarter-with-jquery/#comment-1630 Susan Ottwell Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:11:42 +0000 http://trevordavis.net/?p=588#comment-1630 Depending on the CMS you're using, you could add a snippet of code to the CMS to add the Adobe link if there is a link to a PDF file (this is quite easy to do with the MODx CMS). Another thought: if you're using javascript to show the link if there's a download link, why not use it to actually insert the link? Depending on the CMS you’re using, you could add a snippet of code to the CMS to add the Adobe link if there is a link to a PDF file (this is quite easy to do with the MODx CMS).

Another thought: if you’re using javascript to show the link if there’s a download link, why not use it to actually insert the link?

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